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New Thor not doing so well
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VirusZero Offline
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Post: #1
New Thor not doing so well
So in October the new Thor began running as reported earlier.

And apparently things haven't exactly been rosy. Sales have suffered a sharp decline in the following months.

October 2014 sales - 150,862
November 2014 sales - 89,131
December 2014 sales - 72,563
January 2015 sales - 68,989

Milo Yiannopolous (of Breitbart) has a theory of why...
Simply that fans see it only as pandering to the social justice crowd. Change for the sake of change that no one asked for, nor wanted.



Thoughts?
Agree? Disagree?

Do you think that because readership dropped by over half in 4 months that they'll be looking to get rid of this new Thor or will she be around to stay a while?
02-16-2015 01:07 AM
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Jet Offline
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Post: #2
RE: New Thor not doing so well
I'm not surprised, I thought when they announced the changes that it stank of social justice warrior bullshit. They make Thor a woman, make Captain America black, I figured by the end of the week they'd announce Ironman was gay. At least the change to Cap made sense, there was no rhyme or reason to making Thor a woman, other than to rock the boat needlessly. Instead of coming up with new and interesting plotlines or a cool original character, let's make a stupid change that no one asked for just so we can show how progressive we are.

They'll probably change her back before too long. Comics have weird/unorthodox plotlines all the time, and as soon as they're finished the company buries them and never mentions the decision again.

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02-16-2015 07:37 PM
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VirusZero Offline
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Post: #3
RE: New Thor not doing so well
I thought at one point they made Captain America black because they had Steve Rogers die (if memory serves this was just after Civil War) and had Falcon take over as Captain America.

Though they also had Tony Stark become a woman at one point too... in March 2007's Mighty Avengers.
Spoiler:
Ultron possessing Tony transforms him into a Janet Van Dyne/The Wasp lookalike? I can sort of see why that makes sense given that Ultron was created by Hank Pym... who was in love with Janet and Hank's brain waves were used to make Ultron. So it kind of makes sense that Ultron could become obsessed with Janet. And some that are obsessed go to great lengths to mimic the target of their obsession.
But I have troubles with wrapping my head around just how Ultron warps Stark's body without some severe repercussions. (I mean it took like 3 days for Tony to completely be transformed by the Extremis virus... And Ultron did it in like 10 minutes?)

Though I agree that before too long we'll see Mjolnir pass back to the male Thor. Probably sooner rather than later given that a drop in readership by over 50% is a definite indicator that the fans are not pleased... And that if they want to keep popular/selling comics they don't want to piss off their fans too much.
02-16-2015 09:02 PM
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Jet Offline
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Post: #4
RE: New Thor not doing so well
I said that at least Cap made sense, Falcon was probably one of the best characters to step in for him. I wouldn't have even mentioned it if the announcement didn't coincide with the fem/Thor change.

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02-16-2015 09:15 PM
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VirusZero Offline
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Post: #5
RE: New Thor not doing so well
I wasn't sure if we were talking about the same thing or not. (I haven't really been following Captain America so I didn't know if they had also changed him again or not.)
02-16-2015 09:25 PM
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randomdrifter865 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: New Thor not doing so well
I can see why comic book readers are not pleased. Social justice has really become the bane of creative thought these days and to be frank though comics are not really my thing its just more reason to dislike that group of douche bags more than anything to me. Social Justice = Instant Dumbassery at it finest. I get it some things in this world are not exactly perfect or what I consider sane ,but your demanding the world flip on a dime is not something the world does or cares. This is life and equality isn't gonna happen. Not now or ever so long as someone has a sense of superiority or whatever is the ideal of that time period in question. End of story.

And besides this whole changes to characters that were already established thing sounds a lot like DC's world of comics where a lot of the events or things could be its own universe continuity. That's what it really sounds like to me out of honesty ,but these changes could be related to Social Justice as well which could be a fine example of company is trying to appease a certain crowd ,but is forgetting its target audience. It sounds very similar to how Capcom wanted to use later resident evils in a rather vain attempt to appease COD fans that is no joke and we obviously see why their latter games did not garter that crowd at all nor did it appease the older fans much.

I get it the goal of a company is to make profit in whatever they are doing and they are trying to get more audience ,but how can you do that when you make rather dimwitted changes to already established characters? If these were like alternate universe ideas or something that would have been fine because I can totally buy that a female that wasn't the Thor became worthy of his hammer other than Thor that I could buy and be like okay so this is like a what if scenario ,but no they went a weird direction again to do the whole lets make a vain attempt to try to appease another group of people and forget we have an audience base who would like real or smart reasons to their beloved story versus oh lets throw a wrench because we can and you will accept it ideology and you can see that drop in sales because of it.

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02-17-2015 08:02 AM
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VirusZero Offline
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Post: #7
RE: New Thor not doing so well
The sad thing, to me at least, is that there are still real social injustices being committed. I mean look at the situation of Ferguson or the Trayvon Martin case... Both cases were because someone had decided a black teen was up to no good. And an innocent youth was killed because they happened to be black. Those are serious social justice matters that need to be addressed.

But social justice itself has been co-opted by people trying to force change in ways that don't really make sense (let alone need changing). They pick the absolute smallest things or most trivial things to go after then pick at them. Things, that in many cases, they don't even care about.
I mean trying to force comic book writers/artists to change genders because they want more female or LGBT representation? Especially when they don't read comics themselves or even really care for the medium as a whole?

Though, to be fair, I find the whole required representation thing bullshit because artists should be free to write/draw whatever characters they want for their stories and not have to fulfill some kind of quota. If the creator wants to include a character of race/gender/sexuality that's fine. But they should do so because they think that character is interesting or serves some purpose in their story not because someone demanded that a token be present.
02-17-2015 08:23 PM
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Jet Offline
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Post: #8
RE: New Thor not doing so well
There should be no quotas. If a character or person is good they will rise from the film of mediocrity, but people don't like having garbage forced at them for the sake of diversity. And as you said, the people calling for change are likely those who have no real interest in the medium, they're just trying to push an agenda. It's the same thing I can't stand about Gamergate.

Now Marvel may have gotten the wrong idea, because not too long before the changes to Thor and Cap they gave Ms. Marvel a reboot, making her a Muslim-American teenage girl. Audiences didn't have a huge problem with that, so maybe Marvel thought they could get away with changes to their other characters. I don't know why Ms. Marvel didn't have similar backlash, could be because she isn't as well known as Thor and Cap. Might be because they didn't kill off or change Carol Danvers, she just became Captain Marvel and the little Muslin teen took over as Ms. Marvel. But I feel like it's worth exploring this example and contrasting the level of backlash.

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02-17-2015 08:54 PM
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VirusZero Offline
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Post: #9
RE: New Thor not doing so well
I think partly why there wasn't a backlash against Ms. Marvel is because it sort of wasn't a reboot. It was more like a shifting of titles.

Captain Marvel wasn't really well known or all that popular compared to other heroes. So, offhand, I don't think anyone was actually occupying the title at the time just prior to Carol taking it. (There have been multiple people that held the title of Captain Marvel. Carol Danvers is the 7th person to take the title Captain Marvel...)

Plus the new Ms. Marvel just took the title because she idolized the previous Ms. Marvel. (And if memory serves, when the new Ms. Marvel got her powers the first thing that happened was she transformed in Carol Danver's Ms. Marvel...) So technically Ms. Marvel is still there (as Captain Marvel) unlike here where M/Thor has been replaced.

I'm also curious if some of the reason people don't like the new Thor is because of how bad the writing is. I mean did you see the samples on the Breitbart page?
Where the villainess just gives up because "girl power"? Not going to lie... That's either incredibly stupid or just horribly lazy writing. (Probably both.)
02-17-2015 09:57 PM
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randomdrifter865 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: New Thor not doing so well
Exactly Virus because that's what a ton of those idiots do is pick on the smallest of details. Like honestly that's why I dislike a lot of those social justice people because almost if not all the time its agenda and other times this is a medium they know nothing about and expect things to flip because, "Oh I don't like this, change it to this mentality," and a lot of the times its pretty much that.

I get there are much major cases ,but really its just a lot stupid small crap that means absolutely nothing in the long run because really its just a person or group who complains about jack nothing a lot of the time. Major cases are their own story ,but it seems instead of focusing on that stuff they focus on what they can actually manipulate which I honestly don't understand the logic as to hey let's ignore the real thing and focus on something completely not the thing that needs to be focused on.

And going back to the artists and writers point yeah they should have freedom to do what they want and they shouldn't be influenced by these people who don't do the actual damn work or make the meat to these stories ,but unfortunately its become pretty much that in a lot of cases and that's sad where creative thought can't even flourish without someone making a big stink because it doesn't meet their lofty and misguided standards.

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02-18-2015 04:04 PM
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